0:00:01 – Announcer

You are listening to the National University Podcast.

0:00:09 – Kimberly King

Hello, I’m Kimberly King. Welcome to the National University Podcast, where we offer a holistic approach to student support, well-being and success- the Whole Human education. We put passion into practice by offering accessible, achievable higher education to lifelong learners. Today we’re discussing how to find and keep talent and a really interesting conversation coming up as the knowledge economy has taken over the business world. According to the Harvard Business Review, people with rare expertise and skills have become powerful. Review people with rare expertise and skills have become powerful, be they corporate executives, research scientists, money managers, artists, athletes or celebrities. But at the same time, technology and innovation have modernized the capital markets, making funding much easier to get and further shifting power from capital to talent. A great conversation coming up, giving us a lot of hope on today’s show. On today’s episode, we’re discussing how to find and keep talent, and joining us is Dr. Sheila Hunt.

Dr. Hunt is a visionary leader at heart, dedicated to teaching at National University since 2012. With a retired Marine Corps husband and father, Dr. Hunt is a champion and cheerleader for all. She holds a doctoral degree in organizational leadership and Christian ministry and a master’s in educational leadership. She is a strategic thinker with acute business acumen, evidenced by corporate goal execution at Walmart headquarters and Home Depot. As the CEO of Explosive Transformation Corporation and 501c3 Godseekers International Incorporated, Dr. Hunt’s emotional intelligence enhances understanding and empathy with others to foster a positive and inclusive work environment. Her servant leadership shines brightly by prioritizing the needs of students, employees and the community, while demonstrating a selfless and compassionate approach as a public school principal CEO, university professor and ordained minister. Very impressive. We welcome you to the podcast, Dr. Hunt. How are you?

0:02:25 – Doctor Sheila Hunt

Oh, I am doing so good. I live in Arkansas and the spring is springing, and so it’s just so much fun. We have like a whole herd of deer in our backyard we feed, and raccoons, possums, everything, so it’s always interesting around here.

0:02:40 – Kimberly King

Oh, I love that. Why don’t you fill our audience in a little bit on your mission and your work before we get to today’s episode?

0:02:46 – Doctor Sheila Hunt

Okay, well, at National I actually work with about 240 part-time faculty that teach a lot of our business classes. And then when you talk about mission, it just brings to mind. We just got back from a two-week mission trip to Africa, to Kenya. We got to cross the equator and go on- oh it was so funny- a safari. And then we also got to work with educators and on the safari, we actually got charged by this huge rhinoceros. It was crazy. I’ve never been charged by a rhinoceros before. And one night we went on a night safari and they actually we saw five lions bring down a huge water buffalo. So the circle of life was well and alive in Africa.

0:03:26 – Kimberly King

Oh my gosh, not many people get to say that. How amazing and scary, but you survived.

0:03:32 – Doctor Sheila Hunt

It was quite crazy, I was really glad for the Land Rover.

0:03:40 – Kimberly King

Oh, my goodness, wow. Again, that’s probably another topic for another podcast, but today we are talking about how to find and keep talent, and of course, you have talent and you’ve seen it and worked with it. Why is it important, Doctor, for your employees to reflect your customer population?

0:03:55 – Doctor Sheila Hunt

It’s super important, when you’re looking for talent, that the employees reflect who their customers are, and so at National University we have a diverse group of students and those are, of course, our customers. At National, we have a huge military affiliate. We probably have almost 50% of our student population are affiliated military, whether they’re family or actually active, or Veterans. And then the other students are from across the world too. We have people on float right now in Taiwan and in UAE. They’re all over. We have East Coast, West Coast, so it’s always interesting. But we also have a diverse group of faculty- part-time and full-time, faculty and administration. So I love how Dr. Milliron calls our students “The And-ers.” They’re workers and parents and volunteers and coaches and students and all the other things- caregivers. So we want to make sure that whoever we and you have as our professors really know how to work with that diverse group of customers which are our students, who have so many different customs and holidays and things, but the same with any organization, whether it’s Walmart, Home Depot or wherever you work.

0:05:09 – Kimberly King

I love that and I like that you call them the ands, because it’s true no matter where you are in your life, right, we can always make ourselves better, you know, and continue to be lifelong learners at all stops along the way. How can we find a great talent?

0:05:26 – Doctor Sheila Hunt

Well, finding great talent is super important. As leaders, we have to make sure that the right talent is in the right position. I call it the seat on the bus and sometimes I call it the train. You know, so the train’s going this way. You can be in the right car on the train. You can be in the engine on the train. You can be run over by the train. You can be thrown off the train. You gotta make sure the train’s going this way. So it’s kind of always interesting when you use that analogy. But you know, sometimes people shouldn’t be on that train, and so if you already have a high performing team or you’re hiring someone to be that change agent where they’re only going to be there for a year, they’re going to kind of be a disruptor and probably not going to be liked by a lot of people, you want to make sure that you get that right person that can have that but also understands the climate and the culture of the organization as well.

0:06:13 – Kimberly King

Okay, good. Where should hiring organizations advertise and where should job seekers look?

0:06:21 – Doctor Sheila Hunt

Oh my goodness, there is so much out there now when do you even start? There’s companies now are using AI, that artificial intelligence. It’s just so interesting, that they’re using resume optimization right, they are checking what you turn in as a job seeker. Does it match what we’re asking on the job description? And we’re going to talk about that more in just a minute. But it was interesting that the AI powered tools they’re looking at salary now we can even sit on our couch and look at.

Is a company culture the right culture for us? And there’s just so many different opportunities. And whether you use, I know one company I consulted with. They had a champion program for LinkedIn, so when they had a job opening, they would ask their employees to put it out on their LinkedIn profiles and they had a ton of success with that, and they didn’t even have to offer incentives for that.

So, whether you work in a specific place, like when I was a principal in California, we had CASBO for the California School Business Officials. We had ACSA for the Association of California School Administrators. So my nephew is in pharmaceuticals, so they had a CRS. And in FEMA, the Department of Finance, Economics, Marketing and Accounting we have an accounting, a National Accounting Association. So there’s so many places to look now and they have just so many crazy different types. There’s, you know, ZipRecruiter and some others, but anyway, there’s so many places to look. But definitely in higher ed we have highered.com, so lots of specialty places too, that you can even look whether you’re surfing from your couch or whether you’re surfing from your computer.

0:08:04 – Kimberly King

I love that. So how can the hiring organizations ensure the best fit for prospective new hires?

0:08:12 – Doctor Sheila Hunt

I think it’s asking the right questions, and don’t be afraid to also ask scenario-based questions, because I have found out so many fun things about people. You know, hey, has this ever happened to you before? Hey, what would you do in this situation? And those are just some of the ways that you can make sure, also prepare and manage whatever the situation’s going to be. I’ve even had people- gosh, I had a guy at Walmart one time bring his mom to the interview. I’m serious. He’s like, can she come in? I said probably not, because I’m kind of not hiring her. I’m hiring you, you know, so you could go home and talk to her at night, but I really am probably hiring you, so maybe you should just come in. So it’s just, it has been so, so funny.

But no, no, also about personalities: I have to mention personalities. I have been, when I learned about DiSC, that’s just the one I love. But when I learned about that, I actually did my dissertation and it changed my life so much. So I always say too, that personalit, you know, people are different, yet predictably so. So when you, when you hire people, I can tell your personality almost in 30 seconds, 15, 30 seconds.

And I think personality really matters, and I and I think personality really matters, and I’m just going to say this and throw it out there it’s kind of hard to have people, if you’re in a customer service business, that don’t like people. Yeah right, people right, that they’re not empathetic, they don’t really want to hear about you know stuff. And I even had someone tell me one time you know, I don’t, I don’t care what people tell me, that’s their problems. I’m just here to do my job. And I thought, wow, that that’s. That’s a thought. Probably not a good one, it is- it is a philosophy. So they have to like people, you know, if they’re in the customer service business. So those are just some things, I think that it’s important.

0:10:05 – Kimberly King

Yeah, I like I love the scenario thing and it’s funny because my whole family is in law enforcement and I do remember when my son was in the academy, and really that’s how you learn. You have to go through those scenarios and I think we should do that in everyday life anyway, just to think ahead. So I like that in your interview process. How should our prospective employees prepare for the application process?

0:10:25 – Doctor Sheila Hunt

Oh, my goodness, so much to say here really quickly. If you’re applying for a position, I would say, first of all, this is a great time to use AI, that artificial intelligence. You can use Grammarly. You can have it help you look at your resume. You can have it help you make a resume, especially for the cover letter, put your resume in and have it spit it out. But you’re still the human part of that intelligence, right? Artificial’s great, but that human intelligence is good too.

I just want to say as well, proofread, proofread, proofread, proofread. Have someone else proofread it, because I can tell you, when I was a principal, I paper screened probably over 10,000 applications throughout my time as an educator and an administrator. And I, if they had I mean, here’s an educator, I’m a principal, right, I’m hiring teachers- If they had spelling and grammar mistakes, I didn’t even look at them. I have, can I be honest? I’m sorry, but seriously, because now there’s just so many tools that- please proofread, proofread, proofread, don’t send mistakes. So that’s number one. The other thing, too, is make sure that you match whatever that job description is, match it with those preferred and qualifications and required, match it with your experience, because, again, people you know, organizations, are using that AI to go through and check to see in about one second.

Okay, did Sheila decide to go ahead and look at our job description? You know, did they look? So that’s another piece. And then when you’re interviewing, you know if you’re going to go in and you finally get the interview. Look at the company’s mission and vision statement. Do a little investigation work, put your put your detective hat on, because if someone comes in and knows and use mission and vision and our five pillars, it’s like, oh my gosh, you’ve checked that out.

You know, almost half our population is military, you know. And so those are just some of the things that I would absolutely look at. And now, with so many like Autojob and Arytic and Talentprise and Pajama Jobs, where they actually will tell you if you’re a good match and fit, so there’s so many, so many places out there that can help you create your resume. Do your cover letter, but also put your detective hat on. Know a little bit about who you’re applying with.

0:12:34 – Kimberly King

Yep, I love that too, and that mission and vision is so important. It’s like speaking the same language when you go into your interview and being able to say, oh yes, you get this, you understand. So once you hire the right talent, how do you keep them?

0:12:50 – Doctor Sheila Hunt

Goodness, this is a great part and piece with- onboarding is so important. We actually just started where we’re piloting a mentor program with our part-time faculty. We just hired about 30 new part-time faculty because we are teaching now a lot more face-to-face again, in the San Diego area. We’re also starting a new bachelor of business program in Yuma on a military base there, new bachelor of business program in Yuma on a military base there. So we are hiring new part-time faculty to teach the hybrid courses, the face-to-face is what we’re calling them. So it is so much fun to be able to onboard them, give them that time and so anytime we’re hiring someone new.

I don’t like the sink or swim method very well. When I worked at Walmart to bring in a new manager, it was about $15,000. And that wasn’t even if we paid relocation. So if we lost that person within six months of the job, it’s a big loss. And that was just one person.

So we want to make sure that we not only onboard them but we give them a peer mentor, so to speak, someone that’s safe to talk to, because I may- if you’re my boss, Kim, I may come and ask someone else my peer, some questions, but I may not ask you because and I always say too learn the unwrittens quickly, because that’s the stuff that can get you fired, right? Quickly. So you want to know the unwrittens, and usually a peer will tell you that, but I don’t always go to my boss for that. So those are just some of the things. Also, give them a job description. Provide frequent touch bases, because if you don’t come to me and talk to me as a new employee, I kind of then have to figure it out by myself, or then it’s frustrating, right. So also, make sure the technology parts and pieces are there. Give them access to their computer more than- earlier, than a month ahead, right a month before when they get.

So just some of those things and introduce them to the team. Make sure that they know what their task is. Just some simple things that seem simple to us. But I know with Sam Walton at Walmart, he always went first to the associates. So I think too, it’s giving them a safe space to ask the questions, and I tell my students there’s no such thing as a dumb question, right as a, as a silly, silly question or because if you’re thinking it, ask it, because someone else probably is too. So give them that safe space to ask questions and to be a part of the team, even though they may not know everything yet. So those are just some things, I think. We can also, you know, tell people hey, you know, let’s take that offline and you don’t have to talk about it in the middle of a meeting, but having that kind of rankless room is important and just that safe environment. So that’s just some things. You probably know a lot more of it. That’s what’s working for us.

0:15:24 – Kimberly King

I love that. That’s great. So the characteristics- what are the characteristics of a good leader?

0:15:29 – Doctor Sheila Hunt

Okay. So leadership is kind of where my jam is right now, and that’s what I got my doctoral degree in. I love leaders and leadership, but I will tell you- you can say yes or no to this right- I’ve had some great leaders that I would love to be just like them, like you could duplicate yourself. I want to be you. And I’ve had some leaders that I would never want to be like. Right, I mean, I’ve learned stuff that I’m like I would never say that, I would never do that, oh my gosh. And so you kind of think- I don’t know, have you heard the saying that people don’t leave their jobs, they leave their bosses?

0:16:06 – Kimberly King

Yes, I’ve heard that more and more actually. Yes.

0:16:12 – Doctor Sheila Hunt

So I think, too, having a safe space and having those crucial conversations because, you know, I may say, hey, this may be hard to say and it may be hard to hear, but we need to talk about this, you know and also rewarding and motivating hey, you’re doing a great job with this, let’s tweak this a little bit. Or, because I mean, to me praise with a purpose. You’re doing a great job, you know, making those agendas for the meeting and sticking to it. I love that, because otherwise people get frustrated during a meeting. So give them praise with a purpose, but also have those those conversations about opportunity.

And a couple other things about leaders that kind of bug me. I just have to say we say we’re multitasking. Is it really, though, or is it being disrespectful? I have kind of that’s a fine line, right, because if you’re on your phone, you’re not giving me eye contact. If I’m a new employee and you’re that leader, you know, I don’t feel like you’re very present. So I think, putting everything down, spending that five or ten minutes of quality time with a new employee, I think that can help you be that leader. Also, sometimes maybe, being empathetic and sympathetic, but and I think too, having that work life balance with your employees. I know Walmart called it, and I think not just Walmart, but most, most organizations call it more with less. You know we’re doing a riff but we’re not getting any more people, but you get more work, right, that work life balance, I think, is huge too. So those are just some of the things that I think good leaders can do to help keep those great employees.

0:17:42 – Kimberly King

Yeah, I think that’s a good point and just sometimes, just those check-ins without you know, with following the boundaries, but just being human right and just doing a check-in, I think is important. How should a leader work through change with stakeholders, as this seems to be a constant in not only your work environment but our world right now?

0:18:04 – Doctor Sheila Hunt

And we talked a little bit about that at the beginning about change. It’s just, change is always going to happen, right? And with that personality piece I was talking about earlier, I learned that 86% of the world don’t like change. 86%, it’s a lot of people.

So for those other 14%, if I told you, hey, let’s go to Hawaii tomorrow, that 14 % would be like, let’s go, I’m going to pack, let’s meet tomorrow! And the other 86 would be like, now wait a minute.

Dr. Sheila Hunt (24:15.543)

Where are going? Where at hotel we’re at? Now I got, I have children. Now what do we pack? What’s the weather going to be like? You know, so change for them is a process. So when you think about 86% of the world, you have to think when you as a leader and you’re, you’re having employees, I want to include you. I call it, I’d rather, I’d much rather have change done, done with me than done to me. So done with is way better than done to, right.

And during the change process it’s important to bring that 86 percent, everyone in, really. But that 86 percent want to be included, they want to have their voice brought into the room, they want to be listened to, even though we maybe can’t do it that way, but at least you heard me, and I think that’s part of being a great boss too. It’s just, you heard me, you saw me, you validated me, and so now I’m OK. But I trust you as a leader, so now I will follow you. You know, I will be a part of that.

Here’s one change model I love it. 33% of your people will say, I’m not going to do it and you can’t make me. And then another 33% might say, well, I’m going to wait and see if this works, and then I’ll see if I’m on board with that, and I put the extra percent on this one.

34% of the world are kind of like me and Boo, hey, let’s go, let’s do this, I’m ready, what do you need me to do? I’ll lead it. Hey, I’ll cheerlead. Yeah, so that’s called concentric circles, but it’s kind of funny like throwing a pebble in the pool and it makes those waves. So you have to just kind of know like, so change isn’t always fun for everyone, but as much as happening right now I know like some, like Rubio, is changing their model. I think Walgreens is closing some stores now, and there’s just so much, especially post-COVID, that one thing about it is change, and in our courses we do that sought versus taught. You know, what do the employees want? We have to make sure what we teach is what they’re seeking as employers, and one of the biggest things they say is, please give us graduates that know how to work on a team, that can work with other people, because so many people post-COVID are used to working remote from their home and or working online, which a lot of our students do, and they’re not used to working and being that team member.

So, I think that’s going to change too, is learning to work on virtual teams, because this is a virtual team. I mean, we’re almost all on virtual teams now, so I think that’s part of it too. And then again, I think, just bringing as a leader and keeping change. What’s working great, what should we stop? What should we start? What are our opportunities? And giving them that chance, like Sam Walton did, to bring their voices into the room and just be a part of it. And I love, I love, love, love this saying that- it’s by General Dwight Eisenhower- Leadership is the art of getting someone else to do something you want them to do because they want to do it. Oh yeah, I think that’s pretty cool.

0:21:18 – Kimberly King

Yeah, it’s like being married and they say just suggest this and then make sure that, yeah, your husband will think it’s his idea right. [Laughter.] So when you just do that, you just give him the credit right, you came up with the idea. But it’s true, it probably did change a lot post-COVID, and then maybe even a generational, as you’re saying, when people aren’t necessarily so flexible with change. And that is a really high percentage. I would never have thought that it was 86%, so interesting. Food for thought. Do you have any final thoughts?

0:21:52 – Doctor Sheila Hunt

I think, just as a leader, you want to find the right people, you want to bring them in, you want to onboard them, you want to retain them, and I think it’s just- you want that to happen. And at NU, we have two pillars that I love, and one of them is called making things better. Who doesn’t like to make things better? I don’t think anyone wakes up in the morning and says I’m going to fail today, right, I just want to be mediocre, you know, I just want to be good, because we didn’t look like good to great. You know, great, good is the enemy of great. So I think everybody wants to wake up and succeed, right, and I think that’s part of it. And then also the other one is that champion being a champion of student success or customer success, depending on you know what organization you’re at. I think, too, that just inspecting what we expect, I think that’s another piece. If you, if I’m an employee, and and or, and you’re my leader, I want you to come and inspect what you expect from me, and you know, and and kind of you know, like that’s that follow through piece. So please, please, please, do that. You know, treat them. Don’t know, don’t sink or swim. Let’s make sure that we’re onboarding them, that we’re giving them, you know, opportunity and hire from within too.

That was one of the things I should have talked about earlier. But hire from within if you can, but also don’t be afraid to bring that new talent in, but if you bring in someone new. So, Kim, if you applied for the job and I’m outside, I’m an external hire, and you brought me in and now I’m your boss, but you applied for the job and you didn’t get it, you need to have that crucial conversation, because I don’t want you feeling bad. I may not even know that, but whoever hires me needs to tell me that, right? and I need to have that conversation with you. I need to include you and have you help me. You know, maybe you could be my, my, my second in command, and help me. So there’s all of that too, because that’s happening so much now, where people don’t necessarily always hire from within, or they or they do. You know the external hires, but then maybe the best, the person from the inside, is not the best person. So still, though, being received, you know, receiving that, that, that people the external hires. So that’s just kind of where, where my heart is, and and getting the right people on the right seat on the right bus, not being run over by that train. Right, and I’ll just leave you there.

There’s two things I just have to I want to just close with, and it’s like. One of them is Albert Camus, and it’s few people realize how much energy is expended merely to appear normal. I mean, is anyone normal?

Kimberly King: No, no, what is normal?

Doctor Sheila Hunt: I’m a hot mess, but you know you love me anyway. So the last one is Andrew Carnegie, with no man will make a great leader who wants to do it all himself or to get all the credit for it, and I love that. TEAM- together, everyone achieves more. I love that. I love that because you know there isn’t an I in team, but sometimes there has to be, but overall I think the leader is I call it not the sage on the stage, but the guide on the side.

0:24:43 – Kimberly King

I think, that’s important. Wow, I love that. When is your book coming out? You should be writing a book.

Dr Sheila Hunt: You want to help me co-author? Let’s go, let’s do it. All right.

Kimberly King: Well, thank you. This has been so interesting and I do feel like you’re a great cheerleader here. Thank you for sharing your professional knowledge and if you want more information, you can visit National University’s website. It is nu.edu. And again, doctor, thank you so much for your time today.

0:25:13 – Doctor Sheila Hunt

My pleasure. Anybody give me a call. I’m at shunt2 at nu.edu. I’m happy to talk with you.

0:25:17 – Kimberly King

Perfect. Thank you. You’ve been listening to the National University Podcast. For updates on future or past guests, visit us at nu.edu. You can also follow us on social media. Thanks for listening.