0:00:01 – Announcer

You are listening to the National University Podcast.

0:00:10 – Kimberly King

Hello, I’m Kimberly King. Welcome to the National University Podcast, where we offer a holistic approach to student support, well-being and success- the whole human education. We put passion into practice by offering accessible, achievable higher education to lifelong learners. On today’s episode, we’re talking about tips, about great public speaking, and you know, as public speakers, we can often feel like we’re at the top of the pyramid because we’re at the front of the room- this is according to an article from the Harvard Business Review. But it can be tempting to interpret a presentation as an opportunity to showcase what we know rather than address what the audience wants and needs to know. That makes it about us and not about them. In contrast, speakers, as servant leaders, demonstrate self-awareness, empathy and foresight. That’s some really great information about public speaking. You’re going to hear a lot more on today’s show.

On today’s episode, we’re talking about public speaking for professionals, and joining us is National University’s Director of Career Services, Ashley Forrest. Ashley has several years of experience in higher education, serving on various teams with a focus on helping students and employees be successful. Before joining the career services team, Ashley led various NU academic and finance advising teams. She participated in and led many efforts to build new advising strategies and approaches, streamline and develop processes, and bring interdepartmental leadership teams across the organization together to bring an aligned vision to improve the student experience. Ashley earned her master’s degree in professional counseling from Grand Canyon University in 2016 and her education specialist degree in special education from Northcentral University in 2019. Ashley believes everyone can reach their goals with the right mindset and she’s demonstrated a commitment and passion for higher education and professional growth and we welcome her to the podcast today. How are you?

0:02:13 – Ashley Forrest

I’m doing well, thank you. How are you?

0:02:16 – Kimberly King

Great thanks for asking why don’t you fill our audience a little bit on your mission and your work before we get to today’s show topic?

0:02:24 – Ashley Forrest

Yeah. I’ve always realized that I enjoy helping people, and I wasn’t quite sure how I was going to do that, so I started out in education, actually, and thought I wanted to be a teacher. Then I realized that counseling was an option, and then I stumbled into academic and finance advising, which led me here to National. Being able to support our students and the team members around me and other leaders is something that I’m very passionate about. Helping others grow is super important to me, so I’m really excited to be here.

0:02:53 – Kimberly King

Nice, I love it. Today we are talking about how to overcome the fear and speak with confidence, the fear of public speaking- I should say, and speak with confidence. And so tell me, Ashley, I always actually hear this- I do a lot of public speaking. But is it still true that that’s one of the number one fears, along with going to the dentist? Public speaking.

0:03:15 – Ashley Forrest

It’s definitely up there. A lot of people are worried about what they’re going to be perceived as. There’s that whole like, if you visualize the audience in their underwear, it makes it easier. I haven’t found success with that, but it does seem to be up there still.

0:03:30 – Kimberly King

Well, and I think, especially with everybody having cell phones today, and then they all comment and yeah, it’s just, it’s not such a nice world sometimes now right, when everybody can get to you. How would you define effective public speaking?

0:03:48 – Ashley Forrest

I think it’s really about making connection with your audience, really understanding who you’re speaking to, not just delivering information, but inspiring them, persuading them, educating in a way that really resonates with them emotionally and intellectually. People want to know why they’re there and why it should be important to them. So really making that connection, making sure that they understand the key takeaways. It may sound lovely on paper. You could be practicing your speech for weeks, but if the audience doesn’t understand or has a different understanding, you really lose them pretty quickly, and then the well-intentioned message doesn’t get landed ever.

0:04:24 – Kimberly King

That’s such a good thing. I do a lot of media training and I always say, have at least three or four great stories or good stories, that things that have happened to you, and it doesn’t- it actually doesn’t even have to be a great story, but I think you’re right about that inspiring and just really connecting. It always makes, you know- when people can see themselves in you with a good story. Why do you think public speaking is such a valuable skill in today’s world?

0:04:51 – Ashley Forrest

Well, you kind of alluded to it, with the phones and everything, we are in an area of information overload, so the ability to communicate clearly and confidently really is a superpower. Whether you’re pitching an idea, leading a team, delivering your elevator speech or advocating for a change, having those strong public speaking skills really help you stand out and make that impact. No one’s perfect. We’re going to stumble, we’re going to make mistakes, but being able to have that clear, polished presentation it does help you stand out. And when you’re job seeking or you’re looking for that promotion or that next opportunity, if you’re not able to articulate your skills, you’re going to have a really hard time and the market’s super competitive. So being able to take the time to practice, take the time to learn this skill and polish it you will stumble along the way, but being able to practice it, take that feedback is very important.

0:05:44 – Kimberly King

That’s a really good point, and I also always tell the people that when I do some media training and that is also really kind of take note in our lives of big things that have happened and that’s how you make your speech your own. When you realize and I don’t think we do enough of that Sometimes when you look inside and you’re like wow, that was kind of a big deal, you know, and maybe just reflect on that. But so what are some of the key steps that you take to prepare for a speech or for a presentation?

0:06:11 – Ashley Forrest

I think the first thing is really understanding who your audience is and what their needs are. What are they hoping to get out of this and what message are you trying to deliver? What am I trying to accomplish by sharing the information and why is it important? And I think being able to explain the why is a really important piece. People don’t want to just hear information, to hear information. They want to understand why it’s important to them. So addressing that right out the gate is going to be really important, and then that’ll help you outline what the key message is.

And practice is very, very important and visualizing yourself, as silly as it may sound, delivering something confidently speaks volumes. Because you’re not going to feel confident your first couple of times, you’re going to stumble, you’re going to struggle, you’re going to be nervous.

I have certainly had my fair share of moments where I’ve been very nervous… sweaty palms. But doing a mock presentation or speech with your friends, colleagues or a career advisor that you have access to, which all of our National University students do, it’s a great way to get some of those jitters out without all of the pressure of the live environment. It can also help you identify areas where maybe the presentation doesn’t flow as seamlessly as you’d like or the word choice wasn’t exactly what you wanted, and then rehearsing with the technology that you’re going to use is going to be very important, especially since we are in such a digital age. That way you can avoid any surprises, any technical issues. It doesn’t always resolve the issue, you can’t always anticipate that, but giving it a shot, testing it out, getting more comfortable with that and then focusing on the message and why you’re delivering it to really send it home is going to be important.

0:07:42 – Kimberly King

Great advice. I love that you’re saying practice with that technology, doesn’t it always seem like when you’re ready to go, something always goes wrong? But being able to laugh it off too and know that we’re not perfect, and we can make mistakes and we do. And it’s funny too- a lot of my clients are in law enforcement and military and they are trained, you know, not everybody’s born to be a great speaker, but they always, I guess, rehearse and practice, and I think what you said in the very beginning it is really important just getting those jitters out, and I always appreciate when they want to. They’re like can I practice again? And so I think that’s really great advice. How do you structure a speech to ensure that it is engaging and impactful?

0:08:26 – Ashley Forrest

Well, I tend to follow a simple structure to start, and again it goes back to the audience, but really looking at something that’s going to grab the attention in the beginning, some sort of icebreaker to get the audience involved, engaged, starting to participate from the beginning rather than just being a passive observer. And then looking at, what are my main points? Depending on how long the presentation or speech has to be, I generally aim for about two to three main points and then I can fill in the gaps from there, and then a memorable closing to really send it home and make sure that whatever your takeaway is delivered. Kind of like a draft of an essay to help me gather my thoughts and structure things appropriately so I can identify like how do I want it to flow, what are my main points, what are the areas I really need to drive home? But then you had mentioned it earlier, weaving in stories or examples to make those abstract ideas more relatable. Telling a story is super important. It pulls the audience in and it makes you more human, not just a person that’s delivering a lecture.

And making sure that the language that I use is relevant to my audience. It’s not really helpful to use a ton of industry jargon with a group that’s not familiar with it. So making sure that you’re not missing that opportunity there. I think that’s what I usually do to structure it, to make sure that it’s engaging. But I also kind of play off the audience. If I get a lot of engagement in a certain area, we may spend a little more time in that area, because that’s something that they care about, they’re passionate about, and I don’t want to close that off because then they’re more likely to participate later on.

0:09:57 – Kimberly King

Another piece of great advice. And again, when I said I worked with military law enforcement and but it doesn’t matter, even doctors and lawyers, everybody can be a great speaker. But when they throw that jargon in there or the codes and you do have to kind of and I hate to say dumb it down but make it so that we all can understand the same language there. I think that’s really good advice. Can you share some strategies for overcoming public speaking anxiety or stage fright?

0:10:26 – Ashley Forrest

Preparation is probably the most important. Being really familiar with your material is going to be very important. That’ll help reduce some of those nerves. There isn’t anything that’s going to take them away entirely, other than doing it more often. The more that you practice, the more comfortable you feel with something. But breathing exercises are helpful. If you are a sensory person, sensory toys while you’re presenting, sometimes- especially virtually, are appropriate. But visualizing that positive outcome also helps.

Putting it in your mind that this is going to go well is going to help you get out of that negative spiral that tends to happen when you get nervous or you think about really stressful things, and reminding yourself that the audience wants you to succeed. They’re there for a reason, even if you stumble. That authenticity can really turn that into a moment to connect and be seen as that human. And I have to say there have been tons of moments where I’ve stumbled over my words or had difficulty finding the right word or phrasing, and I was fortunate enough to have an audience that gave me the grace to stumble and still stick the landing. I think it almost made it more impactful when I stumbled, so I’m like I’m so sorry, let me try that again. More impactful when I stumbled, so I’m like I’m so sorry, let me try that again. They will happen, but that recovery is just as important.

0:11:37 – Kimberly King

Being human, you’re showing your human side and I love that. I mean again, we all, we all stumble at times and it’s. I have my brother stutters and he for the longest time would, would stutter as he’s trying to speak, but then all of a sudden he would sing and just do an icebreaker and he’d said I think it’s better when I sing, when I speak. So he kind of got past that. I love that. Yeah, you do, and you have to laugh at yourself. How important is storytelling? We talked a little bit about that, in public speaking and how do you incorporate it?

0:12:13 – Ashley Forrest

It’s crucial. It really is how humans connect and remember ideas. I tend to use stories from my experiences or those that other people have shared with me, if it’s relevant, to help illustrate whatever points I’m trying to make, create that emotional connection and make the message stick. Stories and experiences are a lot easier to remember than just a bunch of information, because there’s a piece of it that they relate to the most and they hang on to that piece and most people it helps create a more memorable experience than a dry lecture might. If I’m just coming and talking at you, rather than trying to relate to you, you’re less likely to take the information that I’m hoping you’ll take out of it. And while both have their place, there will be moments where it’s appropriate to just say here’s the information. An engaging speaker will make the listener want to continue to listen, so they show up, they participate more and they care more about what you’re telling them.

0:13:04 – Kimberly King

Yeah, I think we remember more in the stories that we hear from people, especially when they incorporate it in their speech, but again, it’s talking with you or to you, rather than at you. I think that’s a really good way to change that up. So what role does body language play in effective communication during a presentation?

0:13:25 – Ashley Forrest

This is a fun one. So body language it often speaks louder than words when you have an opportunity to take advantage of it. But it depends on how you’re delivering your presentation. So if I’m presenting in person, I really try to focus on maintaining that open posture. You don’t want to have like crossed arms or be unapproachable. Having that consistent eye contact, purposeful gestures to bring in the audience, reinforce whatever it is that you’re speaking about and conveying that confidence.

Somebody had once mentioned boosting your T. So if you put your hands on your hips, it helps boost your testosterone, help you feel more confident. So being able to kind of walk around the room and not be seen as like, I’m going to dictate information to you, but I’m here to talk with you. But walking the room- not trying to favor any one particular side of the room as much as possible- It’ll depend on the layout of the room and the format that you’re presenting in- But really making sure that you’re engaging with the audience as much as you’d like to see them engage with you is going to be important.

Presenting virtually is a little different. You can’t always see your audience to know whether or not they’re tracking, so you rely more on them asking questions, posting things in the chat, hoping that their video’s on so you can try to gauge reactions and facial expressions. But if you have a larger group, that’s a lot harder to do because you’re trying to make sure that you’re focused on your content, you’re trying to make sure that you’re engaging the audience, and trying to scroll the little images on your screen is a challenge. So I think virtually it’s a much different space to present in, because you don’t always know whether or not your message is landing.

0:15:04 – Kimberly King

I keep throwing in my two cents, so I apologize. So I used to be on air back in the day and then I uh started my own PR firm and I spoke a lot and it’s just so different now and it really kind of goes with what you’re saying on those Zoom interviews, or you know, it’s different when you’re just talking to a camera versus when you see your audience. And I got out of the practice of being in front of a live audience for a long time and I’ll tell you it was really nerve wracking the first time I hit an audience and I could see everybody’s reactions. But now I prefer that because that really kind of helps gauge how you’re doing. When you see their reaction, they’re falling asleep, you’re like, we got to move this along. But it’s probably very scary for people that aren’t used to being in front of that live audience to just see them staring right back at you.

0:15:59 – Ashley Forrest

It is, but I think that live audience it helps you readjust too. In those moments, you’re like I’m losing them. This is not great. Okay, pivot, how do we move this forward and make sure that they’re still engaged and they care about what I’m saying?

0:16:09 – Kimberly King

Yes, Right. I love that. How do you tailor your message to different audiences? I?

0:16:15 – Ashley Forrest

think researching who your audience is upfront is going to be really important. What demographic are you looking at? What are the interests, what are the challenges? What is your message overall? And again it goes back to that why? Why are you there? Because clearly there’s a reason. Whether it’s a training opportunity or they care about the topic or whatever the case may be, there’s a reason that they’re there, hopefully of their own volition, but sometimes there are mandatory trainings.

So, really focusing on who you’re meeting with, adjusting your tone, language… Examples that align with their perspective and staying authentic in the message. You can script things out all day, every day, but if it’s not your voice, it’s not going to come across as authentic or genuine and it kind of goes back to that jargon piece. Like I don’t want to lose my audience, so when I’m speaking in acronyms, it’s not going to be helpful if they’re not familiar. And I actually received some really great feedback recently about the importance of defining acronyms internally. I often will define them when I’m presenting externally, because I know that the audience isn’t familiar with what I’m speaking about, but they don’t always know from department to department, and being able to take a step back and say “this is what I’m referring to and we call it this” helps educate and also bring the audience along in the story.

So making sure that we help keep them engaged, keep them part, an active part, of the conversation is going to be really important as well. But I think those are the main points. And then really getting a good understanding, I like to start with icebreakers in the beginning of some sort, just so that everybody’s a little bit more at ease, and asking the audience what are you hoping to get out of this? So that I know what the expectations are from an audience standpoint and then I know what the expectations are from my standpoint. So hopefully we meet in the middle.

0:18:01 – Kimberly King

That’s good. That’s actually really good. I don’t think I’ve ever done that, so good point. What are your tips for keeping an audience engaged, especially during longer talks?

0:18:15 – Ashley Forrest

I have had to give many a training, and varying your vocal tone, description and pace keeps things dynamic. So if I said something like the dog was walking down the street with his owner, it’s pretty bland, Not super exciting. You’re like, yeah, cool, the dog’s walking down the street. But if I said something like picture this- a lively dog is trotting down the street, his tail’s wagging with joy, his owner is super proud and is running right along his side. Both of them are really enjoying their day. It’s a little more exciting and it paints a picture so you can come along in that journey with me.

It doesn’t matter what story I’m trying to tell. If you change the tone, if you change the pace, if you add some excitement, well-placed excitement. You don’t need to be over the top bubbly all the time either, but you want it to capture the audience like a good storybook wherever possible. I think about story time before bedtime, and while that is intended to put people to sleep, you want them to be engaged and excited, not putting them to sleep.

0:19:05 – Kimberly King

I just thought about The Princess Bride while you were saying that. Just the descriptions. Right, it’s one of my favorites, I love it.

0:19:13 – Ashley Forrest

It is, and I think another is asking rhetorical questions, throwing in some humor, or polling the audience in a virtual setting, like what would you like to see? Or what’s your experience with this? Breaking things down into a little bit more digestible segments and then pausing for a short discussion wherever possible, I think is always welcomed, and if I’m struggling to get engagement, sometimes I let the audience know that I’ll randomly call on someone if no one volunteers, and that boosts it real quick. [Laughter.]

0:19:38 – Kimberly King

Right, I think the last time I spoke I actually had gifts and it was it became, you know, a challenge. So yeah, whatever you can do right, to engage your audience. How do you handle unexpected interruptions or challenging questions during a presentation?

0:19:55 – Ashley Forrest

I think this one’s an interesting question. I think staying calm and acknowledging the interruption gracefully is really important and refocusing the message. Sometimes redirection is going to be needed, but it really depends on the question, the interruption and how it’s presented. For tough questions, I really want to address them honestly or promise a follow-up if I don’t have the answer, which oftentimes I don’t. Sometimes I need to look into things and shows like I’m here with you. I don’t know the answer, but we can figure this out together to show like professionalism, adaptability, but also we’re in this together.

And oftentimes those tough questions come from people feeling uneasy or afraid of what’s to come. They don’t have all of the information, whether it’s a change in policy, a new process, navigating a project they’re not familiar with or insert whatever negative thing. The unknown is always a scary thing and not acknowledging that can also cause more harm than good. Within reason, while it’s not always appropriate to discuss in a large forum, making sure that you’re addressing it and saying, hey, let’s swing back around to that. I’m going to message you on the side and we can have a follow-up conversation, or I’m not sure, let me take this back and I’ll follow up with you with some more information because I don’t want to give you the wrong information.

I think that speaks volumes- as long as you actually follow up. That’s the other piece to that. You have to make sure that if you say you’re going to do something, you do it, and I think it often. While it may not get an answer to that individual or that group of individuals right away, it will let them know that they’re not alone, that they were heard and it’ll hopefully help keep them engaged along the way. But it’s not usually people giving you a tough time. They’re having a hard time.

0:21:31 – Kimberly King

And you know what. That’s actually a really good point too, because sometimes I think we feel like we have to have that information to them right away. And, yeah, it’s good you can just say, yep, I hear you, I see you, I’ll get back to you, and that’s good advice. How has technology changed the way we approach public speaking? You talked a little bit about that when we’re doing like Zoom meetings and whatnot, but what else do you have a little bit about that when we’re doing like Zoom meetings?

0:21:54 – Ashley Forrest

I think it’s made it easier to connect with global audiences. You’re not just confined to the 30 people you have in your room or your organization. You really can have a much larger reach through these virtual platforms, and it also enables us to add some really cool visuals, some data that’s more real time, though it’s important to not rely on that too much and still focus on the human interaction.

You don’t want to lose that piece, but there’s a lot of ways that you can practice with technology and not really need a live person for some of your presentations. So there are some AI platforms out there for things like mock presentations or mock interviews or what have you, that will help you fine tune it and they’ll provide feedback along the way. So, while it’s not a replacement for a live human, it does help with that practice piece and getting the jitters out, so that you’re more polished when you get in front of a live person. But you can also attend so many other things. So not only can I present to a large group, I can also see other presenters and get some feedback and see different styles. So if I want to attend a live webinar or a conference or a speaking engagement, I can do all of that or watch the recording later. So it’s increased access across the board, despite any distance or time zones or anything like that.

But I do also think that and I’m guilty of this as well- it’s become a bit of a crutch in some instances. So I remember back in the day getting ready for presentations and having to memorize everything, memorize my speech. I had my note cards, I took them with me and you just had to be prepared. Whereas in a virtual setting- which could be a great thing and could be a negative thing, depending on how you look at it- we have an over-reliance on having our notes right on the screen, or not necessarily preparing as much as we should or could, because we can have the sort of open note option and some people do really well with it. It’s fantastic, they’re able to take it and run. And some, it’s very clear, they’re reading off of a screen and you’re struggling and you’re trying to navigate that scenario and it doesn’t feel as genuine or authentic.

0:23:57 – Kimberly King

Yeah, I’m a big fan of just, you know, bullet points just to kind of keep you on track, but not memorizing, because then you’re always nervous like, I didn’t get all the information out. And I always tell this when I do media training- they don’t know, nobody knows what you are going to say or what your answers are. If you’re the expert, then you have the knowledge already in there. So you know- it’s and it’s probably building their confidence up. But yeah, forget about memorizing, at least for me anyway. So do you have any advice on integrating visual aids or multimedia into speeches?

0:24:35 – Ashley Forrest

I think that visuals really should complement all of your messaging. It shouldn’t be the main focus of it, but a well-placed video or image or even a meme sometimes that will help sell your message a little bit more is absolutely appropriate, just making sure that they’re appropriate for your audience. You want to make sure that you know your audience well enough to know what is appropriate. There’s not a ton of text in them, because it kind of defeats the purpose of having an image if you’re just going to give them more text to read and I think, rehearsing with your slides and media, making sure that everything works, just like that technology piece, again, it’s going to be important. If that video doesn’t play, it’s not going to do you a whole lot of good in that presentation, so you have to be prepared for that.

What happens if that video doesn’t work? Because sometimes that happens, can you pick it up and run and I think, helping use them to clarify complex ideas? I’m a huge fan of charts and images, especially for a lot of information when I’m trying to compare different things. But also evoking emotion is always good because it goes back to that connection piece. So I think wherever you can use it to help complement what you’re trying to sell or what information you’re trying to share, you should. Just be sure to vary that and don’t rely on it too much, because you don’t want to have the same video over and over and over again, and then your audience is like, ugh, again? Yeah, so really making sure that you’re varying that and it’s meaningful to whatever it is that you’re trying to talk about.

0:26:07 – Kimberly King

That’s a good point. What advice would you give to someone who wants to start improving their public speaking skills today?

0:26:14 – Ashley Forrest

Start today and start small. Practice in low stakes settings. Maybe it’s that you have a segment in a team meeting or you’re going to share this one piece of information with the group, or you’re going to take this one project and start leading that. It could be anything as simple as hey don’t forget, there’s a holiday coming up, don’t come to work. As silly as that sounds, it’s still getting some exposure out there and getting in front of an audience in a space that you’re comfortable, so you can continue building on that and recording yourself, as uncomfortable as it can be sometimes.

I know nobody likes to listen to themselves or watch themselves on videos, but it’s really one of the best ways to say, oh, I really didn’t like how I said that or my tone wasn’t great or I made a weird face. I should probably be aware of that. And also asking for feedback, whether it’s in a setting with a peer or a friend or a family member and you’re sitting in the same room or you’re on a Zoom meeting or whatever the case may be. Or maybe you send them that recording because you’re not quite comfortable sitting in a space. That’s okay, but getting that feedback and not shying away from opportunities to speak is always going to be helpful, even if you mess it up. Honestly, the most powerful messages, the most powerful lessons that I’ve gotten were from messing up. So taking that, taking a deep breath and running with it is super, super helpful, and the more you do it, the more confident you’ll become. Practice makes progress, not perfection, and you’ve got this. You just got to start today.

0:27:46 – Kimberly King

You know, and one of the things my takeaway from what you said, and from the very beginning, is that the audience really does want to cheer you on and they’re on your side. I think that, just right, there takes off a lot of pressure. So I think if we think that when we start out, that they are cheering for us, not against us, I think that’s good stuff. So well, thank you so much. We appreciate you joining us today and if you want more information, you can visit National University’s website. It is nu.edu. And again, thank you so much for your time. This was valuable today, thank you.

0:27:18 – Ashley Forrest

Thank you.

0:27:23 – Kimberly King

You’ve been listening to the National University Podcast. For updates on future or past guests, visit us at nu.edu. You can also follow us on social media. Thanks for listening.