Announcer: You are listening to the National University Podcast.

0:00:09 – Kimberly King

Hello, I’m Kimberly King. Welcome to the National University Podcast, where we offer an holistic approach to student support, well-being and success- the Whole Human education. We put passion into practice by offering accessible, achievable higher education to lifelong learners. On today’s show, we’re talking about transitioning out of the military into a career in education and, according to the Educator Academy in a recent article, transitioning from military service to the classroom may seem like a major shift, but veterans often possess a unique skill set that makes them highly effective educators. With discipline, leadership and a commitment to service, veterans have what it takes to positively impact students and the school community. This is such an interesting conversation. Stay with us for today’s podcast.

On today’s episode, we’re discussing transitioning out of the military to a job in education, and joining us is Dr. Quincey Daniels, Jr. Dr. Daniels is a dissertation chair in the College of Education at National University. He served as a major in the US Army thank you for your service and also a former special education teacher and K-12 principal. He has also been a lecturer in the Wisconsin Technical College System, and his current research interests include student motivation and engagement, plus special education and differentiated instruction, as a member of the Office of Organizational Leadership and Educational Administration at the College of Education. A native of San Antonio, Texas. Dr. Daniels now resides with his family on a 15-acre sheep farm in Mindoro, Wisconsin. Wow, this is so interesting. Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Daniels. How are you?

0:02:07 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

I am doing well. [Laughter].

0:02:22 – Kimberly King
Oh, I love it. What a fabulous. Your bio is so interesting and again, thank you for your service and I can’t wait to talk to you. Let’s talk about how you can fill our audience in a little bit on your mission and your work before we get to today’s show topic.

0:02:22 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

Well, a lot of it, and it really, once you’re in the military, it kind of stays with you for life. You kind of take it with you everywhere. And I found that my mission seemed to be you have to be with something that’s a little bigger than yourself and you have to go and bring your best effort and you have to guide people along the way. Bring somebody with you, and that that’s one of the things I like to do. So anytime I get to work with dissertation students, it’s just part of the process and I keep telling them every time you get closer to getting to that magic, going and graduating, bring somebody with you, because there’s going to be somebody in your position trying to learn where you’re at. So that’s what I do.

0:03:08 – Kimberly King

I love it. You give back and that’s so important. So today we are talking about transitioning out of the military into a job in education, and this is so. It’s so timely, it’s relevant, it’s you know, you have your life experience. So can you describe your motivation for joining the United States Army as an enlisted member and then what initially drew you to military service?

0:03:35 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

Well, that was kind of a family tradition. We have military members that go back to Gettysburg. Thanks to Ancestry and a little 23andMe, we managed to cross all the information because I like to do genealogy, find all the history, and one of the things I noted it was just time for my, it was my turn, because my father served in the Air Force and he earned a- This talk starts to date me, right. Uh, I saw him train with a up-and-coming Cassius Clay back in the 60s and he was- he, my father, earned a bronze medal in 1960 Rome Olympics for boxing and lightweight and at that time, Cassius Clay got the first gold medal. And the rest is history from there.

But I saw the military base information. I started going with dad and it was just this, just part of life. And when I finally got of age I went off to college and I’m like, hmm, that’s nice, but then I wanted something more. So I’m like, it’s good to go in the classes and I wanted to do really well. But then I said, well, maybe you can do just a little bit more. And then I happened to just walk by that recruiter, say, hey, what you doing?

That’s how it kind of started. So he’s like, what are you interested in? I’m like you know, psychology. He’s like, well, we have a program like that, we have something for you. I’m like well, really? And then he said we’ve talked about a two plus two plus two deal and two years. And you know, this is what happens after the second year, they promote you and then you kind of go hmm, I kind of like it here and it’s real easy to get accustomed to. So therefore it was just, it’s so regimented. You knew exactly what you were doing in the morning all the way to when it’s time to go in the evening. That’s one of the things that’s about- there isn’t a lot of wasted time. It doesn’t happen, not in the military.

0:05:42 – Kimberly King

You know what, and just from your sports background, as well as your father’s, and I mean so military, sports, I think when you join a team you find out that, what that regiment is like and that schedule, and I think, especially when we’re young, we need that. Right? So I love that you are using all of this in your, in your ability to motivate and inspire others. So, doctor, reflecting on your time as an enlisted soldier, what were some of the most valuable lessons or skills that you learned during that period?

0:06:13 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

Very first thing. I remember and you tend to always remember that first conversation you had with a drill sergeant and it was like the world does not owe you anything, you need to get off your and go out and earn it.

It was very humbling, um, but it was something that was instilled. It’s like if you want something, don’t whine about it, go work for it. And it just seemed to like resonate with me don’t whine about it, go work for it. And it was like so, if you’re going to be that, what did they say? There’s no such thing as being on time, there’s only being early.

0:06:57 – Kimberly King
You know what? They say that in law enforcement. You’re right, I hear that all the time, good.

0:06:59 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.
So we kind of do all the things that are necessary. Back then it was like okay, so you’re on time, you’re early, you were with your team and once we started getting a good understanding that team equals life. You know, you’re just as strong as the strongest and you’re just as weak as the weak. So you want to train your team to survive and do well and achieve. And I like the competition, and it seems like everybody, at least in my generation, we really like to compete.

0:07:33 – Kimberly King

Oh, I love that. That also keeps you humble, doesn’t it, when you’re competing, and I like that teamwork mentality. I think we don’t have enough of that sometimes. How did your military experience including leadership and organizational skills, prepare you for a later career in education?

0:07:51 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.
A lot of it is that as you get ready to transition out and do things, you recognize that it’s just another step in the process. And that leadership in one dimension, while the major difference between, say, organizations and civilian sector and military is that if you make an oops you might lose money and things like that Military, you might lose lives. So I always had a boss who would go in and he’d tell me captain, and then at this time it’s like major, our, our favorite function is to keep people employed, living, so don’t- blah, blah, blah. So I’ll leave that part out, but he was definitely very expressive on make sure the mission gets done and that our people are taken care of.

So that was the old mission first, people always mentality that we kind of developed. And he’s like if I see you doing the good stuff, you will never know I’m there. If you see me walking up to you with an unhappy face, get ready. I’m like okay, sir. Gotcha.

0:07:51 – Kimberly King

Like, tell me once I heard you loud and clear. Lima, Charlie, right.

0:07:51 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

But the big things is that you understood how to operate in different areas like um. Part of my other things with the technical college system is that I have I work with the budget, with the governor, and you see people. They want to do the right things and I always tell people I never met a person I didn’t like, who didn’t want to be the best there is at something. People do not intentionally come in trying to fail and that’s why you have to give them every resource to get things done. But if you get an idea that they’re not trying, that’s where I get a little motivated. They’re trying to provide a little more motivation.

But you get to see people at all sectors, all levels, and that was one of the things that once I transitioned out, it’s like whether I’m talking to college presidents, because we oversee 16 different technical colleges. Wow, yes, it can be interesting. So, whether I’m talking to college presidents or I’m talking to the person who’s still trying to figure out if they want to take a student loan to take another class, you’re all trying to get to somewhere else on a different level and they all want to do good. So that’s what I take it as.

0:10:24 – Kimberly King

Oh, but that’s true, though, like you, don’t start to fail. You know, I think most everybody wants to succeed and sometimes when you have an oops, like you talk about, or just a setback, you know, I guess as leaders it’s up to us to help motivate. So what aspects of military life, such as discipline, communication or teamwork, were especially valuable for you when you transitioned to becoming a professor?

0:10:50 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

It was an interesting dynamic because I was coming in like, okay, we got to get this. And all of a sudden I saw this thing that I’m very familiar with. They called it the template. Military people will follow a template like we’re breathing, because that’s what we were. It’s like OK, here’s the template for how we’re going to go and do the attack, here’s the template of how we’re going to go and do our defense, here’s the template of how we’re going to have something.

And then they say well, we use templates here for the dissertation process. You have certain areas of how we like to present things, here’s how we like our PowerPoint here. And let’s go. Oh, this is so familiar. So I was like oh, okay, uh and if you ask any of my students, they ever veer off the template. Well, there’s another week. Because I’m like you have to follow the template. If you do, if you go off and add something to it. I’m just gonna say and they hear that sometimes a lot-

0:11:53 – Kimberly King

Everybody has their own ideas. Yeah, right, but the template brings together the team, right.

0:11:57 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

Yeah, and I said there’s a certain communication order that goes with our committees that we work in, and it’s just like a little chain of command. And I said at no time do you ever go and speak to your subject matter expert without notifying me, otherwise you’ll have a come to Jesus meeting with me. So I think I’ve only had to do that twice. But the big thing is, you people have their own specific responsibilities and I want to make sure that they accomplish them, and if you’re working as your committee, as a team, the person who’s trying to get to the next level has to abide by the rules. So that was. That was an easy transition on that part. I was like, oh, templates, not a problem.

0:12:46 – Kimberly King

Yeah, no, I like that and I think we should adopt that in everything we do. National University is known for its diverse student population. How has your military background influenced your approach to teaching and connecting with students from various walks of life?

0:13:03 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

Once I start meeting people, because I require my students to meet with me at least every eight to nine days, so there are no surprises. So we Zoom. I have a lot of Zoom calls.

0:13:15 – Kimberly King

Right. And National is all over, right. So yeah, you probably can’t meet with everybody face to face.

0:13:25 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

It’s not so much the face-to-face portion, but Zoom calls, yeah, yeah, and plus I make myself available. It’s like they can text me or email me or we can schedule a Zoom thing and I also do this thing where I’ll pop their document up on the screen. I’m like, hmm, explain this, what’s your ideas here? Blah, blah, blah, and they’re like, oh, I still gotta go cook. I’m like, I know, but you go have dinner and we’ll come back in an hour. How’s that?

0:13:56 – Kimberly King

Oh, that’s good, that’s nice. Wow. I wish I had a life like you yeah.

0:14:02 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

Oh, they just tell me, oh, you don’t have a social life. I’m like thanks.

0:14:08 – Kimberly King

But that’s available for them.

0:14:11 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

Oh, most of our faculty are always available. It’s just that students have to get remember that thing from the military. You got to get used to talking to people. Because some people professor, I don’t know if I want to talk. I’m like- I said, here’s the whole point. By the time you get so used to this and you’ve had so many Zoom conferences, guess what you’re going to be defending on- A Zoom.

0:14:34 – Kimberly King

A Zoom, yeah right.

0:14:36 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

I’m like you literally had hundreds of Zoom calls with me, so by the time they’re supposed to get their defense ready, it’s like, oh okay, I’ve been doing this for years.

0:14:47 – Kimberly King

Yeah, good, that’s great, all of that preparation, so serving in both the military and education fields. How do you define leadership? And has your definition evolved over time?

0:15:02 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

Literally, I always think of leadership as you know, you’re trying to get a diverse group and I always say it’s a diverse group and you’re influencing people to actually go and accomplish something. And if you’re able to do so and you get them to want to do it, you see, there’s leaders who do it by coercion, there’s leaders who inspire. I always like to think that I’d like to be one of the people that inspire you to do that. But sometimes you have to get out front and you lead, or we should say you know, if you’re trying to and it’s a strange acronym or example you can’t push spaghetti. [Laughter.] I know it seems funny.

0:15:45 – Kimberly King

I don’t think I’ve ever heard that before you, I like it.

0:15:49 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

You can’t push spaghetti, you got to get out there. And you got to sometimes pull it and move it forward, because if you try to tell them oh, you should have done that and they’re like well, how? It’s like, oh well, let me tell you how it beings this, and then you kind of make it available and there’s enough recordings and things out there that you can make, and I always believe in YouTube University.

0:16:10 – Kimberly King

Yes, yes.

0:16:11 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

We have this thing. Everybody who’s on the qualitative side, they’ll use things like NVivo and you have to put all the information in there. And they’re like Dr. Daniels, how do we do this? I’m like, well, here’s what I’m going to tell you. I can show you or you can learn it, and I will go through and show you and point you- Now push the button and it will never get tired until you learn how to do this software program. And they’re like, I took two days. I’m like, but you got it. Instead of me doing it for you.

0:16:40 – Kimberly King

Yeah.

0:16:43 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

And then I said I want you to do one other favor. And they’re like what? Okay, because we do the ABC and D courses and things like that. And I have a person who’s like in the 9904. They’re going to do graduation and all that. And I have a person who’s in the A course, just starting. I was like, okay, we’re going to all sit down, we’re going to talk, we’re going to have coffee. And they’re gonna like oh, you’re a morning person. I’m like, yes, I am, and we’re gonna do this. And then they’re like oh, why do we have to do it at seven? I’m like because I’ve been up a while, because the sheep where I have, we have to feed them at 4:30.

So I get them together and it’s like, tell them your experiences. And they’re like run! It’s not that bad, but you bring people with you. And that’s why- and some of them it’s like can you communicate and this is an interesting one- can you communicate with the students that you had who have graduated years ago? And you know, I’ll just pick up in there or they’ll call me or text. It’s like, hey, what are you doing? You’re like, oh, I’m getting published or I’m doing this. I’m like, oh, awesome. It’s like I have a favor, like who do you want me to talk to? Yeah, you gotta bring people with you, or otherwise what’s the point? And I told them all the preparation, when they get ready to go to ProQuest and they put your name in there and you see people and they’re citing you. You know you to go to ProQuest and they put your name in there and you see, people and they’re citing you. You know, you have arrived.

0:18:11 – Kimberly King

Yes, yes, you know that’s become a full circle moment there, wow, so you’re kind of talking a little bit about this, but do you have a memorable story, a specific one, from your military career that profoundly shaped the way that you view education, leadership and teamwork?

0:18:32 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

Yep, it wasn’t one of the fun events, and this is why I always say you have to work with the people, sometimes on a more personal level, because when you are having one of those days, one of those weeks, whatever that’s going on and you’re just like I am not doing this, well, what am I not doing? And you need an outside perspective. So this is one of those things. I can go ahead and talk about it from Somalia and it takes like really three days because the roads are so bad and we get ambushed like a mile off the road or whatever they have. They just start dropping things on us and I’m like, okay, we’re gonna do it and we’re trying to do all the defensive actions and all this.

And I remember there was one person and he was supposedly our best soldier and all of a sudden his vehicle- because we’re trying to haul you-know-what to get out of there and he froze- and my driver, she’s like you keep going, sir, I got this and she gets out of the vehicle, runs back a quarter mile to get him back online and I’m like- because literally, the bullets are going the little whatever, they have a 203s are going and she’s just making her way on through and we’re just getting out of the kill zone, and it was one of those that we do an after-action review of the whole thing once we’re safe.

And you know, and it’s like- he’s like, I don’t know what happened. I mean because sometimes people will freeze and sometimes people will step up because they have to. And that’s one of the things when I take it over here, that sometimes people are having a bad day, a bad week, a bad whatever. Before I make a big whole to-do about it, I might want to put my detective hat on and find out what’s going on so you can bring them along, because a little compassion goes a long way.

0:20:33 – Kimberly King

I like that. So true, and but it’s that fight or flight and sometimes you don’t know until you’re in that situation, so wow.

0:20:41 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

And the other one I learned is that anybody could lead. That’s the whole point.

It’s like I didn’t have to tell her to go do it. She just decided she wanted to go do it because that’s part of her team.

0:20:54 – Kimberly King

Yeah, and that’s a true leader right there. Yeah, wow. So that’s scary actually. During your career the transitions from enlisted personnel to officer, then to an educator what specific strategies did you use to successfully switch roles?

0:21:14 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

You have to really become a sponge for knowledge. It’s like everybody will always say, oh, you can do this way and you can do it that way, until they hand you either the document and say, here, you’re in charge- you don’t know what it feels like and that you start really trying to form things as fast as you can in the right- what you believe to be- the right areas. And I always said people will make errors and you have to give them a little grace and a little training and you define, you start- I call it the little quadrants, the people who don’t know but were really trying, the people that don’t know and don’t want to try, the people that know and they’re really trying. So it’s like you, you kind of quadrant them and then it’s like, okay, how do I get the people that really don’t want to, and why are they here?

And this is one of the things as an officer is like, if you don’t really like being here, we’re going to do our best to level you and move you into something that you really want to do. Because, as I told a lot of people on the journey to the doctorate, it’s challenging, it’s difficult, it’s hard, but it’s not impossible. And that what you’re doing now is setting up, as we call it, and this is how I call it. Be the greatest in your bloodline, because, like how many doctors, are in your family? And it’s like if you want to be remembered.

This is something that’s going to be in something like ProQuest for the rest of your life. Other people can read your thoughts. You might as well just get that out there, and if you’re not making it, then why aren’t you making it? And you need to be open and have that be. You have to be able to communicate with the person that’s with you. Because there are some people will say, oh, Dr. Daniels is a saint, and other people go oh, Dr. Daniels is the devil.

0:23:20 – Kimberly King

No, they never say that. I hope not. [Laughter.]

0:23:25 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

And I just go, well, it depends on if I get you and your quadrant person who is not trying and doesn’t want you know it’s like no, you got to you. This takes a lot of time and you got to have that. We said courage, candor, commitment, competence- all those things that I took from the military goes right in there. When you’re trying to write a dissertation, you definitely have to be able to communicate. You gotta be confident in your ability to get them ready, because if they’re not ready, part of that’s on me, so I’ll usually make sure they’re ready.

0:24:02 – Kimberly King

Yeah, right, that’ll come back, won’t it? Yeah, and kind of what you just said meeting people where they’re at and being able to lift them if they’re struggling, and all yeah. What advice would you offer to veterans considering a second career in education, and specifically in teaching at the university level?

0:24:22 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

The first thing I would say is be ready. You’re going to get people from all parts of wherever and be open. And the other part is a lot of people really enjoy your time and a lot of the collegiality that works. You know, seeing people on a different level where they’ve moved into a- As I told them, I will pull up their very first paper they ever wrote after they got their dissertation. I’m like do you remember this?

They’re like no… burn that. You really have to enjoy what you’re doing, because if you’re not enjoying what you’re doing, it’s going to show. It just will, and people start to pick up on that. It’s like if you’re having a bad day, I’m like- I always tell people, don’t share. You need to like bring a good, happy attitude, and I try to do the thing of- there may be the conversations where I’m like this needs to change. This isn’t working here. We need to do this. And they’re like well, this is the third week. I’m like well, when you do this and the things that I highlighted, and I’m like we used to say, don’t get stuck on being too prideful to make a change. And I’m like here you go, this is where we’re headed with it. And then I say, just because I agree with you doesn’t mean your other committee is going to agree with us. You’re like well, that’s not fair. I’m like nobody ever said life’s going to be fair.

0:26:02 – Kimberly King

Right, right, life is not fair.

0:26:05 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

But you follow directions, you build a relationship and sometimes it’s like, yeah, we can all sit down and talk and it’s like we will have the we’re not talking about your dissertation coffee, and that’s usually on a Saturday morning, which I make students do every quarter and they’re like, and because I’m a morning person, they just, they suffer through it.

0:26:29 – Kimberly King

Yeah, hopefully not at 4:30 in the morning.

0:26:33 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.uincey Daniels

Oh, no, no, no, it’s like I usually try not to. It’s like what are you doing at Saturday at 7:30? They’re like I was planning on… like yeah, we can have breakfast. Let’s talk. Yeah, we’re not talking about your dissertation, we’re going to talk about football, and they’re like oh! And then I remember one student just decided to rib me really bad. It was like, oh, you mean the Cowboys that haven’t won anything since I was born? I’m like, be quiet.

0:27:01 – Kimberly King

Yeah right, don’t remind me. [Laughter.]

0:27:05 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.
But you find things that you make yourself human because a lot of people go, well, they know so much about you… I’m like the internet they know everything about everybody. Anyway, you just put a name in.

0:27:17 – Kimberly King

They do. Yeah, that is true. So, looking back on your varied career, how has your personal sense of purpose or mission evolved from serving in the Army to serving students in the classroom?

0:27:32 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

That kind of overlaid what I had with the mission in the military. Get the mission done, take care of your people and when you put it over on one other area it’s like the mission is to graduate, get the students across. But you also got to understand that they come with their own set of needs, their own way, and I always try to relate a little to what they’re doing because I went through my process. We have a huge family, 11 kids, I’m not kidding.

0:28:05 – Kimberly King

Oh my gosh. Wait, you have 11 kids? Wow.

0:28:06 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

We have 11, but fortunately half of them are adults and they’re off with their own families. But during that time, we had eight and I’m going honey, just take them, I’m going to go to the library or I have to have some time taking swimming and we did the exact thing, we both couldn’t be in a Ph because she got her PhD in special education. So she’s like after you’re done, then I’m going to get mine, and so the children will not suffer.

0:28:36 – Kimberly King

I love that. Wow, there’s teamwork right there.

0:28:40 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

But I tell them like your support team at home has to work and we’ll talk about it. And it’s like if there’s not a distraction, you’ve got to and I tell them I know you would like to do it at home, but sometimes you just need to go and say library, and you leave the phone at home.

0:28:57 – Kimberly King

Wow, wow, that’s really inspiring. That’s amazing. If there, this is my last question to you, because then you’re going to have to get back to the sheep and the kids and everybody else. If there’s one lesson or principle from your time in the military that you hope to instill in your students, what would that be and why?

0:29:19 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

You have to begin with the end in mind. It’s like where do you see? And I tell people, real quick, get yourself a little picture frame, put it up on your computer with a date, and it’s like I’m graduating with _____ on this date. It’s like speaking into existence, because until you actually put yourself out there and let people know that you’re going for the top of the academic world, it’s like I’ve seen so soon. Oh, I can’t tell them I’m an PhD. I’m like, why not?

You know, friends, don’t let friends stay ABD. It doesn’t work. So you, you have to be proud of what you’re doing and all the processes and everything else and they’re like well, people will treat you differently. I’m like… kind of goes with the territory, doc!

0:30:11 – Kimberly King

Right, exactly.

0:30:18 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

Be proud of what you’re doing. You may rest a little bit, but don’t quit, you’re going to be fine. It just takes a little bit more to make that doctorate and the thing is just keep going. There is, what do they say? When, in doubt, there isn’t a B plan, you have to say finish. And that’s about it.

0:30:37 – Kimberly King

I like no, but I like that you visualize that. You see that in your frame or however you visualize. I think that’s important to speak it into existence, as you say. Well, this has been fascinating and congratulations to all that you have done in your life and the fact that you have 11 kids. I’m still blown away by that. You look younger than me, that’s for sure. But thank you, doctor, so much for sharing your knowledge and if you want more information, you can visit National University’s website, nu.edu, and thank you so much for your time today.

0:31:15 – Doctor Quincey Daniels Jr.

All right, you’re welcome.

0:31:19 – Kimberly King

You’ve been listening to the National University Podcast. For updates on future or past guests, visit us at nu.edu. You can also follow us on social media. Thanks for listening.