0:00:01 – Announcer

You are listening to the National University Podcast.

0:00:10 – Kimberly King

Hello, I’m Kimberly King. Welcome to the National University Podcast, where we offer a holistic approach to student support, well-being and success – the whole human education. We put passion into practice by offering accessible, achievable higher education to lifelong learners. Thank you for joining us. Today we are talking about mental performance and the use of sports psychology. Researchers have studied sports psychology for almost two centuries and they’ve developed several working definitions. The Association for Applied Sports Psychology states that it strengthens athletes’ ability to perform and thrive and helps performers realize their greatest potential by holistically serving their mental needs. More on today’s episode, coming right up.

On today’s episode, we’re talking about mental performance, and joining us is the program director for the Masters of Science in Sports Psychology and PhD Program in Sport and Performances Psychology at National University, Grayson Kimball. I love your name. Grayson is also an adjunct faculty member in the psychology department at Northeastern University in Boston and a mental performance coach Eastern University in Boston and a mental performance coach. He runs his own consulting business, GTK Sports, where he’s been providing mental coaching sessions for over 20 years to high performers in youth, high school, collegiate, professional, and Olympic-level sports.

Outside of sports, Grayson is certified with the Association for Applied Sports Psychology, a member of the United States Olympic Sports Psychology Registry and currently an experienced practitioner, non-certified mentor, for AASP. He additionally has a passion for running and has completed eight marathons, coached charity teams for the Boston Marathon, and authored the book Grateful Running: Mental Training for the Long-Distance Runner. Wow, impressive. Welcome to the podcast, Grayson. How are you?

0:02:09 – Grayson Kimball

I’m doing all right. Thanks for having me, Kim. I appreciate it.

0:02:19 – Kimberly King

Absolutely. Boy, running. Yeah, you sound like an amazing coach. Running’s not in my makeup somehow, but why don’t you fill our audience in a little bit on your mission and your work before you get to today’s show topic?

0:02:26 – Grayson Kimball

Yeah, sure, so I’ve been in the field of sports psych for a little over 20 years, actually coming up in about 25 years, which makes me feel really, really old. [Laughter.] But the reason why I actually got into it is the same reason why I still love doing it today. I remember back when I was in college hanging out with a couple of guys in the basketball team. They were a Division One program and were hanging out one night, the team started the year six and 0, they lost their next six games. There were six and six. And just one of the players said to me oh, you know, we got to go. I said, oh, where are you guys going? They said, well, coach, has this meeting with a sports psychiatrist or something you know. We lost six straight games.

I mean, this was back in 1993, right? So I mean nobody really knew about sports psych the way it is now. And I’m like, well, that’s interesting, you know, you get here, you got all these athletes top, you know, D1 players, and why are they talking to a psychologist or a psychiatrist? And then, the more I started to learn about it, I found a master’s and PhD program locally where I lived and after I graduated my undergrad, I went straight into the master’s and the PhD program and, as I really started just to understand what makes one athlete better than another when the skill sets are essentially the same, right? So if you have these D1 college basketball players, they all play in the same league, right? Why is one team better than others? And then, even at the pro level, just having an opportunity to speak with some professional baseball players, why is he better than that player? And it’s like, it’s gotta come down to something mental. And again, this was 25 years ago where I started learning about this stuff.

And now, as I work with you know more athletes and non-athletes, even people in a high performance field- I work with sales reps, doctors, you know anyone in business- it all comes down to mindset. And that’s something that I learned early, early on. And so if you can teach somebody how to think differently- and it’s never going to be 100%- but if you can teach someone how to think differently, they can really start to make improvements in anything that they do. And so I started to see that again back in the mid 90s as a young grad student. And then, as I started working with athletes college athletes, high school athletes, professional athletes, I started to notice that it is all about mindset. Yes, you need skill, yes, you need talent, but what’s going to take you to that next level? And it was all about mindset, and it’s something that I’ve just used within myself- my family, friends, and then, of course, clients and people that I work with.

0:05:06 – Kimberly King

Wow, and I think that is such a skill and a knowledge it looks like you’re- you know you’re buried past between you know high school all the way up to Olympic level athletes. That’s amazing and wow. I love that we’re talking about this today- the mental side of performance. And so tell me, how would you describe mental performance coaching from a practical perspective?

0:05:29 – Grayson Kimball

Yeah, sure. So it’s funny if you had five mental performance coaches sitting here right now and asked us all that same question, you’d probably get five slightly different answers. And one thing that I noticed over the years is when I would work with an athlete, they don’t really care about the theory behind something, they just want to know practically how is this going to work. And so over the years I really kind of trimmed down my definition, like, from a practical perspective, what is mental performance? And to me it comes down to three words, in this particular order: Think, feel, perform. Basically, if an individual athlete, student, business person, whoever if they can identify how they think or what they’re thinking about, that’s going to directly affect how they feel about whatever they’re being asked to do, which will then directly impact how they perform, and then that performance is going to lead to that next thought, that next feeling. So it becomes one huge cycle.

So if you have a baseball player who just had a bad game right and now he’s playing again the next day, well, what’s he thinking about going into that game? Well, I better not have another bad game like I had last night. So not the best thought to have. So how is he feeling? Maybe a lack of confidence, maybe some bad nerves? And then, what if he strikes out again in his first at bat? Well, what do you think is going to happen that second at bat? Right, he’s going to be hoping not to strike out, right, which again is a negative mindset.

And so if you can teach athletes, or, and so if you can teach athletes, or really have them appreciate the fact that they control how they think, they control how they feel, so ultimately they should be able to control how they perform. Doesn’t mean that you’re going to win every time, or never strike out or never miss a shot, but I want to feel like I’m in control of what I’m doing, versus the situation controlling me. And so for them to understand just how important the thought and the feeling is, hey, if I don’t like the way I’m performing, I always say to them, ask yourself two questions what are you thinking about and how do you feel? And it’s probably, you know, big picture, negative, negative. So if I know that and I control it, let me change it and then gain some control over my performance.

0:07:52 – Kimberly King

Wow, it does sound so practical. I’m in San Diego and I would love for you to come out and talk to the Padres. We haven’t won a World Series yet, so whatever. Anyway-

0:08:04 – Grayson Kimball

Well, it’s funny you mentioned the San Diego Padres because another brother of mine- that’s his favorite team and I think he actually went out for their playoffs. I think he went out to one of the games. Very familiar with the San Diego Padres.

0:08:19 – Kimberly King

We’re still waiting for that World Series, so maybe we should hire you, I guess, right, so most people associate sports psychology with athletes. So how do you make the transition from mental coaching for sports to mental coaching for school or business or anything else?

0:08:36 – Grayson Kimball

Yeah, so I guess it was about five years ago, 2019, I had an opportunity to do some performance coaching for a non-sport group, and this company happened to be based in Boston, which is where I am. But we work with, you know, companies like all over the country and you know, when I was learning just their model of how they, you know, do mental performance coaching for non-athletes. It was really my first venture into that and what I quickly noticed I would say probably during my first session is that- and it was a sales rep- there was no difference. You know, the sales rep was coming off of a bad quarter and you know, I don’t know if I’m going to meet my goal. If I don’t meet my goal, then I’m the weak link. And if I’m the weak link, then I might get let go. And then what am I going to do? Right, and it’s the same as what if I strike out again? What if I miss another shot? And so I was quickly seeing this is the same. Right, it’s all about performance and you know so in that sense, it’s very easy to kind of make that connection.

Now, again, it’s also convincing the client that you know, yes, you may not have gotten the outcome that you wanted, but that doesn’t mean you’re a failure. Like the question is, why didn’t you get that outcome? Just like you know why didn’t you make the shot? You know why didn’t you close that deal? And so I also ask a lot of the you know non-athletes. I also ask a lot of the you know non-athletes, did you play sports growing up? And you know 98% of them have right. So they understand, you know, what performance is all about. Oh yeah, you know now that I think back to when I used to play soccer, oh if I had known that back then, it would be a little bit different now, and so, when you can connect with the non-athlete on some athletic level, something that they’ve done, then they start to see that connection that oh right, it doesn’t matter what I’m doing, it’s how I perceive what I’m doing.

0:10:39 – Kimberly King

I love that analogy. My whole family’s in law enforcement and the way they recruit. A lot is through collegiate athletes and my kids are both my daughter’s going to be a deputy and my son’s a police officer and that mentality, that sports mentality and then teamwork, it really all plays into, actually, anything right. So I love that you use that. Do you find that student athletes then really have an easier time in learning and applying mental strategies than non-student athletes?

0:11:05 – Grayson Kimball

Yes and no. So when I work with, let’s say, if it’s high school athletes or even college players, for many of them that will be the first time that they are exposed to like traditional sports psychology training. Now, you know, they always hear, you know, be positive and visualize and this, this and that, but a number of them have never actually met with a mental performance coach. So they know about these things, but they don’t really practice it on a consistent basis. But you’re now teaching them a skill set, right, like to literally be positive, like that is a skill set to be more positive than not. So you’re teaching them a skill set through something they really enjoy- playing football, or playing basketball, or marathon running or whatever it is. So they’re learning a skill set through something that they enjoy.

So they might, you know, at first be a little bit more open to you know, mental performance coaching, because we’re learning this in sports. And then they realize, oh well, that just helped me on the field, oh, I wonder if that same strategy could help me in the classroom, right. And then sometimes it’s like word of mouth. The player might have a non-athlete friend in class and say, oh, my sports psychologist taught me about taking some deep breaths to relax before I shoot a free throw, and I did the same thing before my math test today and it just calmed me down. It’s not the reason why I got an A on the test, but it was one reason why it may have helped me perform better. So this way they also become a little bit more open minded, you know, to it. And again, being open minded to anything new is critical in terms of how successful they’re going to be at these new skills that they are learning.

0:12:55 – Kimberly King

So interesting. So what suggestions do you have to help students manage test anxiety?

0:13:10 – Grayson Kimball

So test anxiety is a real thing, but I also am very clear that the work that I do is strictly performance-based versus clinical work, because I’m not a clinical licensed psychologist, I’m strictly a mental performance coach.

So, assuming that there’s no other clinical, you know issues going on, you know, test anxiety is normal, right, everyone gets the butterflies. So the question is, when you get those butterflies, you know, do you look at it as a you know threat or do you see it as a challenge, like you’re going to get nervous before you do anything, right? But again, the nerves mean that you’re alive, like what’s going to happen, like that’s the correct. But if you say, if you think about it, like well, I don’t know if I’m going to do, well, right, okay, now I’m nervous, so those butterflies are going to be bad, or hey, I’ve been studying, you know, really well, for a week now. Those butterflies are good. And when I mentioned butterflies- um years ago, when I was first learning about sports, like in my master’s program, in the textbook there was a quote from a former Olympic swim coach and he said all of my swimmers get the butterflies. But it’s my job to make sure that those butterflies are all moving in the same direction versus just being totally scattered around. Because if you get them to move in the right direction versus just being totally scattered around, because if you get them to move in the right direction, it’s like that positive energy that can help. So you know, getting them to also think about the process of what they need to do.

Right, you have a big test coming up. You get so focused on the outcome. I have to get a 90 or above. What if you get an 88? You know, is the sun not going to come up tomorrow? No, it will. But when you think about the little things, the details, the controllable factors, am I showing up to class? Am I asking questions? Am I getting extra help? Right, doing all those little things will help you feel prepared and when you feel prepared, that typically helps reduce or at least manage that test anxiety. You’re never going to- and you’re never going to eliminate it. Like and I have again, if it’s athletes, non-athletes, again, nerves is like a big thing and I’ll have some of them come in in the very first session. I get nervous, you’re a sports psychologist, make me not nervous, and I always jokingly say I can’t help you. And they’re like well, why not? Well, because you can never eliminate nerves. So you can learn how to manage them better.

0:15:36 – Kimberly King

And you know, like just what you said by saying it out loud, a lot of times you know we’re just flying through life and just not even aware of yeah, you showed up to class, you took your notes, you were, you know, present. But just hearing that, I think that’s kind of that will settle your nerves because, yeah, you’re checking the boxes saying, yep, check, check. I’ve done all of this, so I should do well. What suggestions do you have to help students manage the stress of writing papers and not AI?

0:16:07 – Grayson Kimball

Yeah, you know. Again, it’s very similar to test taking, right? It’s like, oh, I have this 15 page paper due the end of November, right? Like, how am I ever going to get that done? And what happens is, you know, most people tend to procrastinate. Um, you know, I jokingly say when my wife asks me to do something, 100 times, you know, it’s like I’m planning it. Right, I’m planning on what I’m going to do, I’m not procrastinating. [Laughter.]

But again, if you can again think about the process, okay, you know, 15 page paper. If I wait the night before, I mean, can, can I get it done? Yes. You know, is it going to be my best work? No. So how do I go about planning? That, you know, and part of it is, you know, let me draft an outline now, just a very rough outline of what I want to talk about.

Okay, then maybe over the next couple of days I pull a couple articles or something that you know on that particular topic. Maybe I read one or two of them, underline a couple things and maybe, after I read a few things, I go back to the outline. Oh, let me add that in there. That in there. Now I have all the content that I need. So at this point, I’m thinking far more about the process of what I need to do, and the process gets me more engaged in writing that paper. So, again, if you’re stressing out about a possible poor grade, that’s an outcome. I can’t control that. And if I’m so worried about the outcome, then I’m not thinking about the process of actually writing a good, coherent paper because I’m so worried about what my grade is going to be. I can’t control the grade but, again, I can control all the work that I put into it.

0:17:48 – Kimberly King

Time management too. I guess that goes into the planning, right? So, and we’ve all known students that really are so hyper-focused on their grades. How do you assist a student like that?

0:18:07 – Grayson Kimball

So you know, it’s extremely normal to think about outcomes right, like, okay, the class starts and I want an A, right, okay, but many of those outcomes again fall in the uncontrollable category. So, as I stress to all my clients, why focus on something that you have no control over, because it’s just going to drive you crazy. So, again, you can go to every class, ask all the questions, do all of those things, but you don’t create the quiz, right, like you don’t grade the paper. So if you stay focused on the little things, right the process, then you know and you focus on that, there’s a much greater chance you’re going to achieve the realistic outcome.

You know, again, if you’re not good in math, or you think you’re not good in math and you’re like, well, my friend is really good, she’s going to get an A, so I need to get an A also, you’re setting yourself up to fail because you may not be an A student in math. You know, there’s nothing wrong with a B or a B plus. So, again, you don’t want to compare yourself to others because that gets you hyper-focused. And why am I going to compare myself to someone else? I can’t control what he or she does. Let me just keep the focus on me. And again, same principles that we use with athletes, you know, and we, you know, use them with, you know, students as well.

0:19:27 – Kimberly King

So funny that you said that about comparing. We all also have a friend or you know, a student that just doesn’t necessarily use the studying techniques. My best girlfriend was like that growing up and I would just think I’ve been studying all night long and she just would blow in and then always get an A, and so I was always trying to compare myself to her. So what are some common thinking traps that you see with any type of performer, whether it be a student or an athlete?

0:19:54 – Grayson Kimball

Yeah, so these cognitive thinking traps are very real issues that athletes or students whoever the high performer is, they may not necessarily be aware that they’re falling into these traps. So the first step is to let them know. Hey, like, for example, do you have all or nothing thinking? And I go? Well, what’s that? Well, basically, it’s like if I fail the test, I’m a failure.

If I get an A on the test, I am great, right, it’s like you know, we always like I always stress to athletes when you play your best game, you’re not as good as your best game and you’re not as bad as your worst game. You’re always going to regress to your mean right, whatever that mean is. You might have a run of three unbelievable games, right, but eventually you’re going to come back to that mean right and it’s and it’s the same thing. You might have two or three bad games, but then you’ll have that good game and it all- it will all balance out.

So this all or nothing thinking is a very common thinking trap where there’s no gray area. If I fail, I’m a failure. If I get an A, I am super smart, right, it’s like you know. No, you have to kind of have that balance there. So that’s one type of thinking trap that somebody might have. Then there’s catastrophizing right? That’s where you’re believing every possible negative outcome will be catastrophic, right? It’s like oh my God, if I get an 85 on this test, my parents are going to kill me, right? Okay, first of all, an 85 isn’t bad. Second of all, are they really going to kill you? Like no. But in your mind, it’s like you’re working yourself up that like I, because I don’t want to disappoint them, right? Or they’re going to say something and it’s like they’re going to, you know, figuratively, you know like, kill me, you know, whatever, whatever.

But you’re catastrophizing it. It’s like you know, you’re constantly reminding yourself of how bad life is going to be if you don’t do well, right? And you know, I jokingly tell some of my students, like I teach stats classes, so everyone always assumes that, oh, I must be some math genius. I say to them I was probably the worst math student. You know that you could even think of, and I didn’t even gravitate towards statistics til I was in graduate school, where it just something kind of clicked and I’m like, ok, this isn’t like algebra, it’s not trigonometry, like it’s statistics, which is a completely like different thing. And so you know, I started to realize that you know, ok, you don’t have to be this in order to do well somewhere else. And then, so like I’ll jokingly say to my students you know, you’re learning statistics from somebody who was never a numbers person. So as long as you’re open minded and even if you fail the first test, there’s plenty of assignments left where you can boost that grade. So, you know, don’t catastrophize everything because again, you’re going to set yourself backwards, because again you’re going to just going to be thinking doom and gloom.

And then another type of thinking trap is overgeneralizing, right, so that’s when the individual simply believes that you know a previous poor performance will predict a future poor performance, right. So again, if they’re taking a stats class you know a college level stats class and they say, you know, but I’ve never been a numbers person. Like well, so now I’m not going to do well in this class. Well, you don’t know that. Like okay, yes, maybe in seventh grade or eighth grade you struggled in math. Now you’re in graduate school, right, like you’ve learned things, like your brain has developed, like you’ve had positive, you know experiences. Don’t overgeneralize to say what happened five years ago is now going to predict what’s going to happen tomorrow. And so if they can at least be aware of these thinking traps again, the sooner we acknowledge them, the sooner we’re aware of them, again. That goes back to the first question you asked me- Think, feel, perform. Change the way I think, change the way I feel. Gain some control over my performance if it’s on the field or if it’s in a classroom.

0:24:11 – Kimberly King

No, I love that and, again, really being open minded, I love that you suggest that. What are some practical suggestions you have for students who are trying to best manage their time?

0:24:21 – Grayson Kimball

We talked a little bit about that planning and time management to prioritize their schedule, like what do I have to do tomorrow? Oh, here are the 10 things that I need to do, and that’s the most important, second, most third, most right, and they kind of list them. The problem with that is many times we get sidetracked, you know, and it’s like, well, is this really the most important thing, or was the third thing I identified really the most important thing? So I encourage them to kind of scrap that mindset and instead of, you know, prioritize their schedule, schedule their priorities. And the way that I define that is your priority should be what you truly value every day. What do you truly value?

And like a great example, you know, as I mentioned in the intro, I’ve run marathons and stuff, and so running is a big part of my life, like I love to do it whenever I’m healthy enough, don’t I? You know my calf hamstring, blah, blah, blah. So okay, If every day I want to make sure that I either run or work out, ride the bike, something, I value that. Why? Because I want to be healthy and all these things. So does that mean I wake up an hour early, maybe, and maybe not to work out? Maybe I wake up an hour early to get some work done, and then my kids go to school and then at 9 am I can go out for an hour run, right, because that’s what I truly value.

And all of the other things that I have to do, they will get done, but the run clears my mind, anchors me, grounds me, actually gives me energy. You know, to go out and run, you know eight, nine, 10 miles, and then take a shower, come home and start working. I’m energized, right, because I did that versus oh, I really want to go for my run, but let me look at my list of one to 10. And then, next thing, you know, it’s six o’clock at night and it’s like I don’t have the energy to go out for a run now. And then you don’t do it, and that’s not to say I mean, obviously work is your most important thing. It pays the bills, all of that stuff. But what do you truly value? And, again, that’s what you should prioritize, and everything else will get done. You know, you just have to have the mindset, the energy to then make that happen.

0:26:43 – Kimberly King

That’s good, I love that and it is true. I mean, I think what did you say? Value what you prioritize?

0:26:49 – Grayson Kimball

Yeah, so you want to schedule your priorities.

So really, identify like what and Schedule priorities. Yeah, so really identify like what and the priority should be what do I really value? Right, and I mean, and I had a client she was actually training for the Boston marathon just had a newborn I think that her daughter was six months old or something and I said to her you know, what do you truly value every day? She’s like, honestly? I said, yeah. She’s like spending time, you know, with my newborn daughter. I said, all right, well, when do you do that? She’s like well, you know, I, you know this, you know the nanny comes at eight o’clock and I got meeting at this and then I don’t get my-

And I said, well, why don’t you basically reverse your schedule? Like, spending time with your daughter is what you truly value, so why don’t you take her for a stroll or a walk at 7am like when you get up. You get that time in with her and you kind of run your own team. So you set your first meeting for 9.30am, right, it’s like you get in your run, like cause you’re training and all that type of stuff. So you have to do what’s going to make you feel grounded and ready to go for the day, because you want to control the day. You don’t want the day controlling you.

0:28:01 – Kimberly King

I love that. How do you deal with clients who may be resistant to some of the ideas that you suggest to them?

0:28:08 – Grayson Kimball

So if it’s an athlete, business person, student, anytime you’re trying to teach them something new or different, they are likely to be a little resistant to it, because everybody likes their comfort zone. And so when you can teach somebody to take a step out of your comfort zone, that’s when they start to become a little bit more open-minded to that. And I say to them you know, you’re coming to me because you want to make some changes. So yet you’re very resistant to the changes that I am suggesting, not because you don’t think that they’re going to work, it’s because you’ve never done them before and it’s like well, what if they don’t work? Is that going to mean that I’m not good at this and I’m not good at mental training or whatever? No, you’re learning a new skill set. Right, step outside that comfort zone. Even if you fail, you’re actually going to gain, because if you fail at applying this new mental training skill, at least you tried it, right. And now, the next time, your big test comes around- okay, I didn’t really buy into it the first time, but at least I tried it, I know it, so I’m more comfortable with it.

And now the next time you know you have that big test or whatever it is. Oh, let me try that deep breathing, or that you know little, you know whatever you know Dr. Kimball told me to do, right, they have the experience of doing it once and if it didn’t work, learn from the mistake. It’s not that, oh, it didn’t work. The why, why didn’t it work for me? And then again, that’s stuff that we can then talk about in a session and then figure out. Okay, maybe we may need to make a little tweak to it, and that’s another thing too, is when you have people that are a little resistant to something new, even though I may have had a great experience with a separate client and they bought right into it. Everyone’s different, and so, like my coaching style needs to be different depending on who I am working with.

0:30:08 – Kimberly King

Yeah, probably need to know their background and everything else. So, yeah, staying flexible. How do you help students find the motivation to stay engaged with their works and their workouts? I guess too.

0:30:19 – Grayson Kimball

Yeah. So it’s funny that term like find my motivation. I can’t tell you how many athletes, especially marathon runners, whatever, like they’ll say, yeah, you have to help me find my- And I’m like, well, where did your motivation go? And they’re like, well, what do you mean? Well, you’re asking me to help you find it. Like, is it under the couch? Like where is it? The reality is that, the motivation is always there right? And but what’s happening is they’re just simply shifting their desires or their motives. And it’s like okay, on December 31st what does everybody say? Starting tomorrow, I’m cleaning up my diet and I’m going to the gym every single day. You know blah, blah, blah. And then on January 2nd, it’s like I haven’t gone to the gym yet and they’re still eating their cake, and you know, whatever, whatever.

So the question is like, what happened? Well, we’ve got to set challenging goals, but realistic goals, right? And you’re just basically shifting your motives. If you truly want to get in better shape, you’ll do it. If you’re just saying it, you won’t. But you also need to be realistic about it. If you have not gone to the gym in three years, do you really think that, starting January 1st, you’re going to go seven days a week? You haven’t gone in three years, right? Like, let’s try to go once this week, right? And then make twice the next week. So then by February 1st maybe, I’m now at the gym three to four days a week. Now I’m in a routine. It’s realistic. I’m starting to see some changes, I’m starting to feel good, so I’m more motivated. Now I hire a personal trainer.

You know, like, whatever it is, you start making those changes. But if you try to do everything at once and you’ve never done it before, you haven’t done it in, like years and years and years, right, those motives are going to change, but the individual chalks it up to I lost my motivation. You didn’t lose it. And the other reason why I always, you know, try to encourage athletes to get rid of that word lose, right, like, I lost my focus, I lost motivation. You didn’t lose any of it, you changed it. But if you continue to use the word lose, lose has a negative connotation. Nobody wants to lose anything, right? So oh, I lost it, I’m a loser. I’m going to say no, I changed it. And if I changed it once, I have the ability to change it again if I so choose to do that. So that again, to me is a very important distinction that any high performer needs to be aware of. Let’s eliminate lose and replace it with change.

0:33:07 – Kimberly King

And it sounds so simple, but we really do need to self-reflect and hear how we speak about ourselves, and so that’s important. Do these strategies change depending on how the student is performing in their classes?

0:33:21 – Grayson Kimball

They shouldn’t, right? So, again, just like, if an athlete is struggling, you say, well, I don’t think these skills are actually working. But look at my teammate, you know she’s doing, you know well. So the strategy should not change, right? If you’re performing poorly in your class, well, maybe I need to reevaluate my goals, right? Okay, you know, again, I need to get 100 in the class. That’s not realistic, right? If I can get, you know an A minus or higher, or B plus or higher, right? So let me reframe what those goals are.

And another little trap that people fall into, especially from the academic perspective, is perfectionism. Everyone wants to be perfect, right? We want to look perfect, we want perfect scores, all of that stuff. And what I stress to them is that when you strive for perfection and what I stress to them is that when you strive for perfection, you set yourself up for failure, because it’s impossible to be perfect. You might have a really good day today, but when you really stop to think about it, well, it wasn’t perfect, right? But in my mind I think it was. So if you strive for perfection, you set yourself up to fail, you set yourself up to fail. So, similar to the idea of let’s eliminate, lose focus and change it to, I changed my focus with perfectionism thinking, right, we want to eliminate perfection and replace it with consistency. Right, because I can be consistent in how much I study, show up to class, all of that stuff. So if I have a consistent approach to what I’m doing, it really doesn’t matter if I failed the exam or got an A, the strategy should all stay the same, like, okay, I might need to tweak it a little bit, but I don’t say, well, I’m never doing goal setting again, because I set a goal to get an A on the test and I got a B plus, so goal setting doesn’t work. No, maybe the goal setting that you did wasn’t effective, so let’s modify that goal setting.

Or again, you told me to use positive self-talk, you know, to get myself motivated, fired up, whatever, and it didn’t work. Well, what did you tell yourself? Well, I told myself is, you know, I think I’m going to do really well today as long as I don’t, you know, miss the first question? Okay, but what was that last part? Miss the first question? That was negative, right?

Like you know, I used to work with tennis players a lot and I’d say you know what’s your goal today? It’s like you know, I want to win and as long as I don’t like double fault, I should be fine. Okay, I know you don’t want to double fault, so what do you want to do? You want to get the ball, in right. And as simple as that sounds, it’s just they think they’re saying something positive because as long as I don’t double fault, I’ll have a good day.

Well, yeah, if you don’t double fault, how are you not going to not double fault? Oh, if I’m aggressive with my serve? Ah, there’s your positive self-talk. So you think you’re being positive, right, by telling myself not to fail. But now you’re avoiding. And that mindset, and that’s a big thing too, is I try to get across to students, athletes, high performers. You can either have an achievement mindset or an avoidance mindset, and many times they get mixed where, again, as long as that doesn’t happen, I’ll be fine today, right, but now you’re trying to avoid, you’re trying not to do something. Right, and the more you try not to do something, the more likely you are to do that negative thing. So that’s why we want to shift more towards that achievement mindset, where the goal is to literally make something happen.

0:37:04 – Kimberly King

I think we’re our own worst enemies, aren’t we? When we are in our heads and we’re thinking about all that, so you’re there to kind of pull that negative mindset out and make sure, as we like to say, be careful what you say to yourself because you’re always listening. That’s a really and it sounds so simple again, but so do you have any suggestions or tips for the teachers and faculty to improve their approach with their students?

0:37:32 – Grayson Kimball

Yeah, you know what’s interesting is, you know many athletic coaches call themselves teachers. You know, it’s like I’m teaching the game to my athletes, and teachers should really kind of look at themselves as coaches. You know like, I’m coaching my students through the content, right. And then what’s really important is to be aware, just like a very good whatever football coach will realize, not all my players can catch the ball, not all of them can block, not all of them can tackle.

So I need to take an individualized approach to how I coach all of my players and, from a teaching standpoint, even a lot of my students. You know you, sometimes you fall into the trap where you might have three or four really strong students and you just assume everyone’s going to be like this and then you realize after the first couple assignments, they’re struggling a little bit, like they’re going to need different type of feedback, right, and I might need to meet with them on a weekly basis where another student just here’s the assignment, boom, they take it running and boom, you know they are fine. So you know being aware, you know of how to individualize, you know your teaching style to your student. Yes, you need to cover everything in the curriculum and make sure you get through everything that you need to get to, but you know, being aware of how to coach a student, you know can help ease a lot of the stress that many of these students experience.

0:39:02 – Kimberly King

Wow, this has been so interesting and we really appreciate your expertise and having you join us today. If you want more information, you can visit National University’s website at nu.edu. And again, thank you so much for your time and really consider coming out and talking to the Padres.

0:39:20 – Grayson Kimball

Oh listen, if the opportunity was there, I’d be on a flight tomorrow. [Laughter.]

0:39:28 – Kimberly King

I’m going to put in a good word for you. Thank you so much. You’ve been listening to the National University Podcast. For updates on future or past guests, visit us at nu.edu. You can also follow us on social media. Thanks for listening.